Many thanks for this new offer that i had not seen in advance of
I’m not sure if you had entry to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or not, since it is created due to the fact a reference to own Us americans having colonial forefathers away from Plantagenet descent. He offers as one of their proofs you to Joanna was new mother out of Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn provided the new properties of Knighton and Norton castles in the Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you can Gwladus was basically hitched. It can was basically unlawful having Llewelyn to provide Joanna’s property so you can an illegitimate daughter (otherwise individual that wasn’t a baby off Joanna). This new services away from Norton and you will Knighton stayed on the Mortimer family relations after that. The new estimate try, “That in case the King bring Land in order to one with a beneficial woman from their kindred during the honest matrimony, as well as the woman dyeth instead of question, the person regarding Kings case will maybe not wait for his lifestyle, due to the fact lady caused the the brand new present.” Quite simply, the latest services would have reverted back into the top in advance of it could have been given to an infant who was maybe not Joanna’s.
Hi, Marilyn, I didn’t gain access to the newest Plantaganet Origins of the Doug Richardson, however, did gain access to the countless talks of him and you may their theories together with other genealogists (specific having him, however, many and additionally against). I think, once i stated in my personal past paper, that what swings it personally(Joanna as being the mommy out-of Gwladus), ’s the transfer of one’s features you explore so you can Ralph de- Mortimer upon his ed a couple of the youngsters ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not that is amazing if Gwladus was actually this new ded their unique people therefore. In spite of the arguments between your eminent genealogists I explore over, there can be a standard opinion one to Gwladus Ddu will be fairly recognized as new child out of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth of the Joanna, child (then legitimised) out of John, Queen out of The united kingdomt. Allow me to get so it possibility to trust Sharon (from inside the a contact to me) you to definitely Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is because of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and thus being bloodstream sibling so you’re able to Gruffudd. We base this partially towards the a contemporary list found in ‘Royal and other Historical characters Illustrative of your rule out-of Henry 111,’ modified of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. Toward profiles five hundred-503 is the transcript out of a unique letter old Marshall, Earl off Pembroke, to Queen Henry 111. Within page, Marshall talks about their siege of one’s castles of Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. The guy lists individuals the guy found in the palace O’Realy whenever they surrendered, they integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre mais aussi matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m told that implies that i’ve right here Gwenllian, daughter away from Prince llywelyn, whom is apparently called ‘cousin out-of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd are the illegitimate young man away from Llywelyn, it is pulled that ‘de- patre ainsi que matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you can Gruffudd was full blood brother and you can aunt. Had Gwenllian already been Joanna’s daughter hence Queen Henry’s relative, positively Marshall would have stated on that truth? It failure off de- Lacy’s wife once the king’s niece, https://kissbrides.com/web-stories/top-10-hot-croatian-women/ was taken as near specific research one Gwenllian was not this new daughter of the king’s aunt Joanna.
This type of functions have been part of Joanna’s maritagium out of their dad King John
Ken: Thanks for you to definitely reference to Gwenllian. I’m certainly not a specialist genealogist, but I really do numerous search on my own lines. I do believe a few of the “pros” are really envious and you may frustrated of every other (no less than apparently method in certain of all things it post). There are issues that we’re simply not browsing see with confidence about members of new MA as they don’t keep vital records eg i create today, therefore genealogists and you will historians need to use their finest view inside sorting something aside. In reality, vital records is a pretty “new” layout – many claims in the usa didn’t continue records out-of births and you can deaths through to the very early 1900’s. I belong to multiple ancestry societies in which I’ve had to help you confirm eleven otherwise 12 years, and you can trust in me it is hard. Thus i most enjoy the difficulty off comparing MA ancestors. (Together with sad thing is the fact that the ideas that exist into MA is of your royalty and you will nobility – absolutely nothing whatsoever on popular someone).
